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ageing a mapleglo finish |
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danotron
Trout
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Posted: 4/9/2008 11:20:00 PM
Hi,
I'm not talking about "relicing", sandpaper, or steel wool stuff.
I simply love the golden color of Vintage Rickenbacker Mapleglo guitars and basses. I recently bought a newer, used, year 2000 Rick in Mapleglo; and as a newer instrument, the finish is more of a pale wheat color.
I recently read some posts of people with Blueboy finishes that were asking about why the finish was starting to "yellow" a bit giving their guitar a greenish tint. They were trying to stop it from happening, I would like to accelerate it!
I would love the finish on my guitar to yellow a bit...how do I make it happen more quickly? Should I leave it out of the case? Should I blow smoke at it? Should I hang it on the wall?
Any suggestions?
Posts: 55 Location: Orange County, CA Registered: 2/11/2008 4:11:00 PM
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antipodean
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 3:29:00 AM
I believe that certain formulas for conversion varnish will result in it yellowing due to exposure to UV light. I also believe that changes in the CV used by Ric means that recent instruments are more resistant to, if not immune from, this effect.
Posts: 928 Location: Sydney, Australia Registered: 1/17/2007 2:38:00 AM
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Beatlefreak
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 4:27:00 AM
quote:
I recently read some posts of people with Blueboy finishes that were asking about why the finish was starting to "yellow" a bit giving their guitar a greenish tint. They were trying to stop it from happening, I would like to accelerate it!
The ambering of finishes has a different effect on each of the different colors. The yellow enhances finishes such as Mapleglo and Fireglo, yet casts an unpleasant green tint on blues (especially Blueboy) and Jetglo. The White finish is a mixed bag - some of them turn a lovely cream color, while others become a hideous yellow (insert your own descriptive adjective before the word yellow).
As already stated, UV accelerates the ambering process. Both sunlight and flourescent lighting can affect the clearcoat. Pollutants will quicken it also. Play in a band that plays in smoky bars.
Even so, the effect happens slowly - It will take several years.
Posts: 3393 Location: Atlanta, GA Registered: 6/30/2006 12:51:00 PM
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Phalex
Trout
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Posted: 4/10/2008 5:48:00 AM
Take it out to lots of bar gigs and play the ever lovin crap outta the thing. I believe that is the proper way to relic any type of instrument.
Posts: 85 Location: Grand Rapids Registered: 10/10/2006 9:27:00 AM
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steamfurnace12
Marlin
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Posted: 4/10/2008 5:58:00 AM
quote:Take it out to lots of bar gigs and play the ever lovin crap outta the thing. I believe that is the proper way to relic any type of instrument.
It also tends to relic the player. I look in the mirror and I see more evidence of finish checking every day!
Posts: 264 Location: Hamilton,OH Registered: 4/22/2006 8:04:00 AM
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DaleFortune
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 9:18:00 AM
On Mapleglo instruments (natural wood exposed) the Maple wood will yellow over the years, this is known as Patina, the natural aging of the top layer of material be it wood, brass, silver, copper or most any material exposed to the elements of nature. Place your instrument in front of Black or Flouresent lights...Don't do what some other fellow did and put it out in the sun for hours at a time. The heat absorbed from the suns rays twisted the neck..UV light will affect the color.
Posts: 718 Location: Aloha, OR Registered: 8/10/2005
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WhoJamFan
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 12:56:00 PM
Would using a product like Scratch-X remove the yellowing effect? I have an origially white guitar that has yellowed up nicely over the last 20 and I wouldn't want to remove that, but would like to give it the Scratch-x/Zymol treatment.
Posts: 459 Location: Registered: 6/27/2007 6:20:00 AM
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bender
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 1:46:00 PM
I've got a 1977 White 4001 that I've Scratch-X'ed and Zymol'd, I've only done the Scratch-X twice, though.
Applying Zymol won't wear through the CV in a hurry, if ever.
There has been no appreciable change in the almost banana yellow color.
I think the CV yellows evenly throughout it's depth, so you probably won't see any change unless you wear right down through the CV coats.
Posts: 694 Location: Nova Scotia Registered: 10/15/2005
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WhoJamFan
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 1:59:00 PM
Thank you, bender.
Posts: 459 Location: Registered: 6/27/2007 6:20:00 AM
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GHenson60s
Great White Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 3:09:00 PM
quote:On Mapleglo instruments (natural wood exposed) the Maple wood will yellow over the years, this is known as Patina, the natural aging of the top layer of material be it wood, brass, silver, copper or most any material exposed to the elements of nature. Place your instrument in front of Black or Flouresent lights...Don't do what some other fellow did and put it out in the sun for hours at a time. The heat absorbed from the suns rays twisted the neck..UV light will affect the color.
Just wait about 34 years and it should look like my 480.
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f320/aeboy65/newwwwwwwwwwwwww004.jpg
Posts: 470 Location: Woodbridge, Va Registered: 9/13/2006 5:42:00 PM
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danotron
Trout
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Posted: 4/10/2008 4:01:00 PM
Yes, that is indeed the color I crave........but I don't want to wait 34 years!
All kidding aside, the Blueboy finishes that people were asking about in reference to their "greening" concerns are only 3 or 4 years old. The guitar that I bought is from 2000, so it's already older than those.
Also, I've seen quite a few Ricks on eBay that have "ambered" nicely and aren't that old.
My point being is that I know it can happen in a relatively short period of time on some guitars and on others it doesn't. Something must trigger it.
There are some great suggestions here, I'd love to hear any other ideas people have.
I certainly don't expect the color to change overnight.........I just want to speed the process up.
Thanks!
Posts: 55 Location: Orange County, CA Registered: 2/11/2008 4:11:00 PM
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JimK
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 7:29:00 PM
quote:
I would love the finish on my guitar to yellow a bit...how do I make it happen more quickly? Should I leave it out of the case? Should I blow smoke at it? Should I hang it on the wall?
Any suggestions?
Smoke more cigars?
JimK
Posts: 392 Location: Lawrence, Kansas Registered: 8/10/2006 2:26:00 PM
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Highnumbers
Barracuda
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Posted: 4/10/2008 7:46:00 PM
quote:Would using a product like Scratch-X remove the yellowing effect? I have an origially white guitar that has yellowed up nicely over the last 20 and I wouldn't want to remove that, but would like to give it the Scratch-x/Zymol treatment.
You'd need something more abrasive than Scratch-X.
Likely more like a quality Rubbing compound. I've used 3M brand with good results. It's mildly abrasive, but not near as abrasive as any type of sandpaper. Just take a bit and rub in a circular motion in small inch increments. Yes, it will take forever, but you will see the yellowing dissapear.
Then, after the whole guitar is done this way, progress to scratch-x, and give it a rub-down, followed by a proper wax. That should bring the finish to a good shine.
Cheers,
-Collin
Posts: 168 Location: Anyway, Anyhow, Anywhere I choose Registered: 12/1/2007 8:32:00 PM
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iiipopes
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 9:01:00 PM
Bar smoke and UV light over time is the best way to turn the finish really yellow.
Posts: 2540 Location: Registered: 10/8/2006 4:07:00 PM
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RICandVOX
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 9:17:00 PM
You really don't know what your finish will look like for sure if you try to speed up the "ambering" process. Maybe you should let the guitar "age" naturally one day at a time, just like its owner. It's up to you if you want to subject your Rickenbacker to increased amounts of smoke and UV light.
Posts: 2355 Location: Kansas Registered: 10/19/2005
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davclr
Shark
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Posted: 4/10/2008 10:51:00 PM
Perhaps my decades long experiences with aging fine wines may help here.
"Perfect" known wine cellar environment are:
Constant 52-55 degrees F at 70% humidity all year round with minimal to no exposure to sunlight or florescent lighting.
-This is what manufactured wine vaults and/or commercial wine storage facilities try diligently to create via heavily specialized temperature control systems.
I've read and seen of countless gimmicks to "speeding up" the wine aging process, but real world it enevitably leads to unmitigated disasters.
I don't know on guitar finishes, but the same "short changing"
or "shortening" the natural aging process might apply here as well.
Posts: 1480 Location: San Bernardino, CA Registered: 4/3/2006
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WhoJamFan
Shark
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Posted: 4/12/2008 9:34:00 AM
With so many bars you can't smoke in anymore, they may be fewer of these heavily yellowed instruments in the future.
Probably not much of an issue in other countries, but soon in the USA, you'll only be able to smoke inside a hermetically sealed room in your own private residence.
Posts: 459 Location: Registered: 6/27/2007 6:20:00 AM
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SnappyFerret
Trout
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Posted: 10/26/2009 9:08:00 AM
quote:I believe that certain formulas for conversion varnish will result in it yellowing due to exposure to UV light. I also believe that changes in the CV used by Ric means that recent instruments are more resistant to, if not immune from, this effect.
Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I was searching the forums for info on the current conversion varnish that RIC is using. Will the current formula still yellow over time, or will the color of current production instruments pretty much look the same in 10 years?
Posts: 71 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Registered: 5/22/2008 1:53:00 PM
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Barry
Trout
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Posted: 11/3/2009 12:34:00 PM
Is the body and neck finish on a rick nitro? If so there is a good article from Fender about aging your paint.. Problem is you run the risk of checking this finish. My 350 is just 2 years old and it has checking already.
Your best bet to slowly dissolve the Nitro finish is naphtha and a Scotch-Brite Pad
Posts: 84 Location: Michigan Registered: 5/2/2008 2:27:00 PM
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jps
Bass Guru
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Posted: 11/3/2009 5:15:00 PM
RIC does not do nitro finishes.
Posts: 864 Location: NE Ohio Registered: 8/9/2005
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Barry
Trout
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:28:00 AM
quote:RIC does not do nitro finishes. That's a big answer . What is the finish than. It surely weather checks..Almost right away. At least in Black
Posts: 84 Location: Michigan Registered: 5/2/2008 2:27:00 PM
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cjj
Shark
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Posted: 11/4/2009 7:57:00 AM
RIC's clearcoat finish has been CV - Conversion Varnish since the late 1950's/early 1960's. CV is a polyurethane type of finish.
They have recently changed to a UV cured finish.
Posts: 663 Location: N. Montana, next door to the middle of nowhere... Registered: 1/16/2008 1:58:00 PM
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Ben
Production Manager
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Posted: 11/4/2009 10:46:00 AM
The basecoats are a UV cured high solids polyester.
The top coats (over the color) are conversion varnish.
The polyester is extremely durable and thus highly resistant to cold checking.
Conversion varnish is also a pretty hard finish, but it is definitely prone to cold checking if there is a dramatic temperature swing.
Posts: 473 Location: Rickenbacker Headquarters Registered: 8/9/2005
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Clifton
Shark
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Posted: 11/4/2009 2:02:00 PM
I have heard of a limited "Amber Maple Glo" finish on some 660's. I'm not sure if this is just a rumor or not, but it seems like it would be very cool. My wife's Maple Glo 330 from around 1993 or so is turning a nice color. We haven't done anything special to it all, either, just kept in in the case for the most part. Maybe we just got lucky!
Posts: 472 Location: Texas Registered: 8/12/2005
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